Talk:Worner

The Front vs the Front
I am not sure what the actual rules are on essential particles in proper nouns and whether or not they should actually be capitalized in this situation. We had previously edited almost every article on the wiki to avoid constructs such as "recruited by The Front", which has now reappeared here. Rather than revert I think we need a quick discussion on it to find if there is any authority with a word on the matter before we make a decision. --Quasar (talk) 10:02, 7 March 2016 (CST)


 * After 2-3 such edits, I realized there might be a reason/rule for why the wikilinks were formatted that way, and stopped changing them when encountering further cases. English is not my native tongue (though a close second ;) ), so I'm curious as to the outcome. --Xymph (talk) 10:07, 7 March 2016 (CST)


 * I'm now without the massive library across the street, but capitalizing looks quite wrong to me. A newspaper doesn't say "Clinton's statements were disputed by The NRA, citing later criticism of the studies" or "Texas defeated The Sooners, 28-7, after repeated weather delays".    Ryan W (talk) 16:18, 7 March 2016 (CST)


 * Are those appropriate examples? NRA and Oklahoma Sooners don't include 'The' in their own names, right?
 * Besides, the main articles themselves do capitalize: The Order ends with "works to stop The Order's forces." And The Front includes "fighting against The Order. The leader of The Front..." If 'The' is an integral part of some name, shouldn't it always be capitalized when using that name? --Xymph (talk) 16:43, 7 March 2016 (CST)


 * Not all our articles have been rewritten to the standard that was developing, so I'm more interested in external resources as have been researched below than the fact that we still have inconsistency. This discussion is more about where to go in the future than where we're at. --Quasar (talk) 20:15, 7 March 2016 (CST)


 * If I may bring some random example of organization where the article is an integral part of the name:.
 * "The Beatles were an English rock band, formed in Liverpool in 1960. With members John Lennon, Paul McCartney, George Harrison and Ringo Starr, they became widely regarded as the foremost and most influential act of the rock era.[1] Rooted in skiffle, beat, and 1950s rock and roll, the Beatles later experimented with several genres, [...]"
 * Emphasis mine. Feel free to read through various other bands (,, , etc.) to verify that this is consistently done like this. On the other hand, for something that isn't a band, like , they consistently capitalize The (as well as put everything in italics), but that might be because they're referring specifically to the show as a work and not as the people behind it. In this respect, the usage case for the Front and the Order is probably closer to the Beatles than to The Young Turks. --Gez (talk) 17:00, 7 March 2016 (CST)


 * [edit conflict] Hmm. As in, "Bruce Willis portrayed a general in The Siege"?    Ryan W (talk) 17:02, 7 March 2016 (CST)
 * Likewise, The Siege is the title of a work, not the noun of a group. On the other hand, there's this. "Perform 6 different glory kills on The Possessed." But then again, in-game text from a beta isn't necessarily subject to the same stylistic standards as academia and journalism. --Gez (talk) 18:44, 7 March 2016 (CST)


 * So if I'm gathering, then the standard usage is to lower case such particles when they're part of a proper noun that is not a title of a work (which always have their own rules). If this is true, I believe we should adhere to it. Including in cases like "The Possessed," as just because some intern typing in strings at id Software has bad grammar doesn't mean we have to follow suit. I saw several blatant misspellings and bad apostrophe use in some of those beta strings as well, but I can assure those won't be appearing in our prose here unless inside quote marks and with a prominent "[sic]" marker next to them ;) --Quasar (talk) 20:15, 7 March 2016 (CST)


 * Addendum: in the GPO manual of style the only form of definite article which retains capitalization in all circumstances except adjectified usage seems to be place names, such as The Hague. Names of organizations, firms, and military organizations in particular such as the Army (quite relevant here IMO) are not subject to such usage in this standard. --Quasar (talk) 20:33, 7 March 2016 (CST)


 * You timed that such that you couldn't be stopped, at least by me in my timezone. ;) But that's fine, the above convinced me it's the right approach. Carry on. --Xymph (talk) 01:38, 9 March 2016 (CST)